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  1. #16
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    I've tried doing a throttle reset and it didn't help. Also cleaned the throttle body already, no luck. I would have to check the intake manifold, but it should be good. I'm just pretty lost at this point, even a better scanner tat I'd need to dig deeper would be more money on top of what I'd have to fix or replace..



  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mandrow7 View Post
    I've tried doing a throttle reset and it didn't help. Also cleaned the throttle body already, no luck. I would have to check the intake manifold, but it should be good. I'm just pretty lost at this point, even a better scanner tat I'd need to dig deeper would be more money on top of what I'd have to fix or replace..
    You need to check the things I mentioned, do a leak down test in each cylinder, double check that the intake gaskets are leaking etc , also what are the specs on your cam? You might not be able to have the ilde any lower than 750

    its not uncommon to have a pushrod not set right and will cause vacuum and idle issues and not pop one code
    2017 Ram 3500 Cummins Laramie
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    2008 Charger R/T sold CAM ONLY RECORD HOLDER 12.34 @108.89 & 1.66 60'

    Email mailed tuned by Brent@dtpracing.comComp268cam,

  3. #18
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    Not sure what a leak down test is, but there aren’t any vac leaks and intake doesnt leak either. I haven’t taken the covers off to check pushrods or anything yet, but at this point I’m convinced it’s the tune. The surge will change, get worse/better etc with every revision in different rpms and things like that, I feel like it’d be constant if it were an issue with the pushrods or physical parts. At this point, it doesnt really surge at all other than at idle and a bit if I am in D and not on the gas going through a parking lot or something... kinda want to start just looking at getting dyno’d..

    As far as the cam and idle, other 5.7s that run the same cam have no issues with a 650rpm idle, but for some reason mine hates going under 700.
    Last edited by Mandrow7; 05-13-2019 at 07:02 PM.

  4. #19
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    You know, I hate to say it but, people are giving you ideas and you're going off in your own direction....replacing parts that you don't know the "for sure" status of, not thoroughly checking the things folks have told you to check, etc. Now you may have things soooooo goofed up, the only way you'll be able to find out what's going on is to start all over from the beginning with the basics. As I recall, quite a few folks gave you good info. on the cam replacement too, but did you follow it......we don't know for sure? We do know that, since the cam replacement, things haven't been going swimmingly with the way it runs. What did your tuner guy tell you to do and what has he done already? Have you done the things moparmike610 recommended you do? Have you hooked it up to a quality computerized diagnostic scanner to obtain a live stream of data for the various components? How do you know the intake is not leaking? Have you pulled the valve covers and checked the push rod positioning in the rocker arms? How did you clean and "reset" the throttle body? How did you check for vacuum leaks? Why are you "convinced" that the tune is the problem? And finally, you're right, if everything was done correctly, other 5.7's that have the same cam should (and probably do) idle at 650 RPM....and I believe that cam should have a nice lope to it too.

    When you installed the cam, how did you set up the timing? What position was the cam dowel pin in when you installed it? What position was the cam gear tone ring arrow in upon installation? Did you have the single and double "dark colored" links on the timing chain in the correct positions when installing, setting and verifying the timing? What "clock position" was the crankshaft woodruff keyway in when you set the timing? Also, did you properly torque EVERYTHING to the factory specs. and in the proper sequence(s)?

    One other thing, have you checked the purge valve electrical and vacuum connections and the valve itself for proper operation? A bad or malfunctioning purge valve and/or charcoal canister can cause erratic idle, stalling, poor fuel mixture, surging, etc. The charcoal canisters usually get contaminated from repeated overfilling of the fuel tank, which then affects purge valve operation.
    06 300CSRT8, cammed only so far, 06 Jeep GCO and 05 Magnum RT both modded almost the same, MDS "ON" Lt, Fumoto Drain Valves, BT Catch Cans, SRT8 CAIs, AFE Filters, Sonnax Trans Line Press Booster, SC, DS and HP Tuners, Transgo Shift Kit, ARH Long Tube Hdrs w/3 in Magnaflow/Xlerator AP Exh Sys, Bilsteins, SRT Springs/Sways, Cust Eng Cvrs, SRT8 frt/rear bumpers, FRI Sidewinder Cams advanced (Jeep 6*/Maggie 10*), 6.1 valvetrain, SLP 25% UD Pulley, BBK and Arrington 90mm T-Bodies, SOS Ign Coils,TEA ported/milled heads w/new valve seats, SRT Reps.
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  5. #20
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    All the tuner really has to say about it is that he sees everything showing as it should with fuel, air, sensors, etc from the diagnostics I run for him. He's just been trying to tune around it, with some luck, but I just want it gone at this point. I have done everything that all you guys mentioned except pull the valve covers and intake back off (Which I still plan to do), and the leak down test, just because I'm not sure what it is. It's not that I'm ignoring all the info you guys are giving, I appreciate it, it's just that it seems like I blew it out of proportion originally. On the current revision, it only surges minimally at idle and low coasting speeds, anything above 5-10 mph is perfectly fine, that's why I can't see it being anything having to do with compression, parts out of place, etc. I cleaned the throttle body with cleaner and a rag to get all the carbon off, then did the reset by turning the key to "ON" I believe, waiting for it to stop chiming, then slowly depress the pedal and then let it back up at the same speed, then it gives one more chime and that's it. I checked for any vacuum leaks probably 10 times now, looking over all the hoses, tubes, etc. I even used the throttle body cleaner method of spraying it on/around the hoses to see if it gets sucked in anywhere and changes rpm. Cam timing was done according to any manual I could find and video I could watch, they all were the same: cam gear mark straight up with the 2 links of the chain on either tooth and the crank marking straight down with the one chain mark on it. Also, I got an earful from my dad and friends when I asked them about torquing, so everything was torqued properly, to spec and in the correct sequences.

    As for the purge valve, that's the one over by the PCM correct? I checked those vacuum connections as well as resat the electrical connection before, no luck.

    After everything, all that would make sense is I find something when I pull the intake manifold, or still leaning back towards the O2s. I tried researching, but can't seem to find a "for sure" answer. My original O2s that were in there come up as OEM mopar, and they had no issues (until my tuner said he wasn't getting a reading from them). The new sets I've tried were NTK sensors, and it was ever since changing to these that the issues have started, BUT I have tried 2 sets of them in case there was a faulty one and that didnt help. I have read that NTK manufactures mopar sensors for them, is this true? As you said, I want to quit throwing money at the "eh this may fix it" parts, but am willing to bet it'd be related to the O2s.

    Again, I am listening to all the input and I appreciate all your guys help

  6. #21
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    I am guessing Moparmike610 wanted you to do the leakdown test to make sure you haven't bent a valve or have any other problems with the intake/exhaust valves and/or rings. Rather than explain the leakdown test here, you may want to just do a search online to learn the "hows and whys" of it. It's a good test to tell you what's going on with the engine/valve train. With a high lift cam, if it's not installed correctly (a tooth or two off either advanced or retarded) can cause piston to valve collision and bend a valve....even ever so slightly. A leakdown test will expose this. Also, if the cam timing is quite radical, your idle quality will be poor and even stall/surge below what it is "comfortable" with. It's entirely possible that you may have to run the idle somewhere between 700-800 RPM. If it's set too low (for the cam) it'll try to die and the PCM will try to catch it by increasing the idle speed (surge) and then it'll go too high and the P'CM will try to pull it back.....a vicious cycle.

    Your throttle reset is only a bandaid reset. The correct and accurate way has to be done with a diagnostic tool that has this capability. Same goes for checking the purge system. The purge valve is indeed the one over by the PCM with two vacuum lines and an electrical plug. Be sure there are good connections and the plastic line(s) is/are intact

    Based on what you've said above, it sounds like you've got the cam and timing set installed correctly. When everything is back together (except one spark plug per cylinder still out), I always turn the engine over a few times with a wrench/socket on the crank bolt to make sure it turns freely.

    You definitely need a diagnostic tool that can monitor and read the O2 Sensors. NTK does manufacture the OE ones for the early Hemi's. I have NTK sensors in both of my 5.7's and have never had a problem. I have had serious issues with Bosch ones in the upstream positions though, such that it would time out and never go into closed loop.....running rich all the time. Is the wiring from the PCM to (especially) the upstream sensors in good order? If your tuner guy is not getting a reading from them, there is something wrong with the wiring, the sensors (and/or connections) or the PCM itself. Again, a good diagnostic scanner can tell you if it is a PCM problem. The O2 readings are critical and probably the most important engine management sensors and, when not working or reading properly, can cause no end of issues.

    My point earlier about changing/fixing/adjusting/cleaning stuff is that, if it was working before you tore it down and you reinstalled everything correctly, it should still work after the reassembly. Changing stuff randomly just tends to muddy the waters and you'll end up losing track of where you are in the troubleshooting process. I still say and re-emphasize that a good quality computerized diagnostic scanner is a must on all newer computer controlled vehicles. You cannot adequately troubleshoot them any other way.....except replace parts until you stumble onto the problem, and that is not only spendy, it also doesn't always work. Also, sometimes when codes appear, they can end up being the result/symptom of the real problem....in other words the code(s) does not always point directly to the issue.
    06 300CSRT8, cammed only so far, 06 Jeep GCO and 05 Magnum RT both modded almost the same, MDS "ON" Lt, Fumoto Drain Valves, BT Catch Cans, SRT8 CAIs, AFE Filters, Sonnax Trans Line Press Booster, SC, DS and HP Tuners, Transgo Shift Kit, ARH Long Tube Hdrs w/3 in Magnaflow/Xlerator AP Exh Sys, Bilsteins, SRT Springs/Sways, Cust Eng Cvrs, SRT8 frt/rear bumpers, FRI Sidewinder Cams advanced (Jeep 6*/Maggie 10*), 6.1 valvetrain, SLP 25% UD Pulley, BBK and Arrington 90mm T-Bodies, SOS Ign Coils,TEA ported/milled heads w/new valve seats, SRT Reps.
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  7. #22
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    Yeah I figured the throttle reset was just a bandaid until it relearns like everything else. As for the purge valve, the connections all look good, but is there a way I can try and clean it or something to make sure its all good? Also about the O2s, they werent reading originally after the swap (when it didnt surge, but it was hard to tell because it wasnt tuned) with the sensors that have been in there, but then I swapped in a set of the NTKs and he then could see the readings normally, but then thats when the surging started. I thought maybe a faulty sensor and got a replacement set sent out, same thing. I don’t wanna spend $110 on sensors, even thought thats when it started...

  8. #23
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    Also, I did turn it by hand after installation and it was all good. Also, I used my intune, the “key dance” AND autozones most expensive and best scanner, no codes (other than a bad wheel speed sensor thats been there since I bought the car). I will try to get the intake mani off this weekend to check it all out, but it seems to be an issue with a sensor, valve, tune, etc. I’ve looked over all the wiring also, reseated grounds, etc with no luck. I just know I had no issues with the old sensor, even after the cam install, even though it still needed a tune so it wasnt easy to tell. I had to give it gas after starting to keep the rpms up, but then it ran fine. After the O2s, same thing, but surged

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mandrow7 View Post
    So I’ve done a ton of research and there are soo many things to fail or need replaced, so looking for some help.

    The Problem:

    I have to give it a little gas right after cranking for it to stay running, or the rpms will go up then back down and shut it off. After starting its fine at idle, until it will sometimes jerk or take 5-6 second to shift when I change gears. Also, I have to come to a stop slowly or it will drop the rpms again and die.

    I have already replaced, fixed, gotten rid of:
    -EGR
    -MDS
    -Cam Position Sensor
    -Air Filter
    -PCV Valve
    -Cleaned the throttle body
    Most likely in the tune. If you had HP tuners you could look at a tune I have from an 06 300C with cam. Most likely is startup airflow and Airflow>idle torque throttle
    2013 Chrysler 300S, 6.4 BGE with 6.4 SRT cam, AIT 18% OD pulley, E-force with 2.75 pulley, fastman 84+4 mm throttle body, 1 7/8 kooks long tubes w/hi-flow cats, Magnaflow Cat-back, FTI 2800 stall, Trans built by Hellraiser, Dings Racing valve body and tune, Getrag 3.73, Walbro 400LPH, DW 65# inj. LG aluminum rad. Dual SRT fans. Complete 4 piston Brembo upgrade.
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  10. #25
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    The leak down test will show if you have a bent valve or even a pushrod out, also make sure the intake manifold is sealed. I’ve seen this many times over tuners just keep raising the idle to keep it from stalling. Or it could be the tune/tuner

    leak down test would require you to take the rockers back off , your gonna fill the cylinders with air to see if they will hold pressure. This will show if the valves are staying seated and that the rings aren’t blowing by. A leak down tool can be bought or rented at advanced auto , auto zone etc
    2017 Ram 3500 Cummins Laramie
    2019 Challenger Scatpack Widebody
    2008 Charger R/T sold CAM ONLY RECORD HOLDER 12.34 @108.89 & 1.66 60'

    Email mailed tuned by Brent@dtpracing.comComp268cam,

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by moparmike610 View Post
    leak down test would require you to take the rockers back off , your gonna fill the cylinders with air to see if they will hold pressure. This will show if the valves are staying seated and that the rings aren’t blowing by. A leak down tool can be bought or rented at advanced auto , auto zone etc
    Why take the rockers off?


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  12. #27
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    I’ll look into doing the leakdown test and getting that tool this weekend, as well as pulling the intake manifold off.

    He did mention adding startup airflow, which solved the part where I have to give it gas after cranking to keep the idle, but then that effects the actual driving and chnaging gears and made it worse.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by moparmike610 View Post
    The leak down test will show if you have a bent valve or even a pushrod out, also make sure the intake manifold is sealed. I’ve seen this many times over tuners just keep raising the idle to keep it from stalling. Or it could be the tune/tuner

    leak down test would require you to take the rockers back off , your gonna fill the cylinders with air to see if they will hold pressure. This will show if the valves are staying seated and that the rings aren’t blowing by. A leak down tool can be bought or rented at advanced auto , auto zone etc
    All that is needed is to bring each piston to top dead center on the compreesion stroke. Saves a lot of work but, in his case, he'll hopefully be in there checking pushrod/rocker arm installation.
    06 300CSRT8, cammed only so far, 06 Jeep GCO and 05 Magnum RT both modded almost the same, MDS "ON" Lt, Fumoto Drain Valves, BT Catch Cans, SRT8 CAIs, AFE Filters, Sonnax Trans Line Press Booster, SC, DS and HP Tuners, Transgo Shift Kit, ARH Long Tube Hdrs w/3 in Magnaflow/Xlerator AP Exh Sys, Bilsteins, SRT Springs/Sways, Cust Eng Cvrs, SRT8 frt/rear bumpers, FRI Sidewinder Cams advanced (Jeep 6*/Maggie 10*), 6.1 valvetrain, SLP 25% UD Pulley, BBK and Arrington 90mm T-Bodies, SOS Ign Coils,TEA ported/milled heads w/new valve seats, SRT Reps.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by coanan View Post
    Most likely in the tune. If you had HP tuners you could look at a tune I have from an 06 300C with cam. Most likely is startup airflow and Airflow>idle torque throttle
    This should not be needed UNLESS his cam is very radical. I have mild/semi-mild cams in all three of my Hemi's, and I also have an HP Tuner. I've never had to mess with any of the airflow settings and they all start/idle fine. Also, with an HP Tuner, the user better know and thoroughly understand the concepts/requirements/settings required to make these changes or they'll end up with a bigger mess than they started with. On some things with the HPT, one almost needs to be a rocket scientist......it's certainly not like the "old days".
    06 300CSRT8, cammed only so far, 06 Jeep GCO and 05 Magnum RT both modded almost the same, MDS "ON" Lt, Fumoto Drain Valves, BT Catch Cans, SRT8 CAIs, AFE Filters, Sonnax Trans Line Press Booster, SC, DS and HP Tuners, Transgo Shift Kit, ARH Long Tube Hdrs w/3 in Magnaflow/Xlerator AP Exh Sys, Bilsteins, SRT Springs/Sways, Cust Eng Cvrs, SRT8 frt/rear bumpers, FRI Sidewinder Cams advanced (Jeep 6*/Maggie 10*), 6.1 valvetrain, SLP 25% UD Pulley, BBK and Arrington 90mm T-Bodies, SOS Ign Coils,TEA ported/milled heads w/new valve seats, SRT Reps.

  15. #30
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    209/216 duration, 0.549/0.544 lift, 109 lsa. Not too crazy, but wouldnt consider it mild either. Once it idles, it idles. Its just that after cranking, like any other car the rpms will go up then down and settle to an idle. Mine, without the startup airflow, would go up and down, but instead of stopping at an idle, it’d keep dropping and die, or sometimes catch at like 100rpms and try to correct and goes BWAAHHH up to 2500

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